Episode 90 – Growing through conflict with Crystal Hansen
Conflict is inevitable in relationships. But What do you do when it shows up? Maybe you try to brush it under a rug, move on and forget, or maybe you do a lot of arguing and fighting. If you’re doing either of those, you’re not moving a relationship forward by using conflict as your teacher. Crystal Hansen, the couples conflict coach, is here today to show us why and how we can grow through conflict.
This is the third episode of GROW month in the Know, Love, Grow model.
Want to contact Crystal? To to her website at http://crystalhansencoaching.com/
Developing emotional maturity is one skill that carries over into many areas of your life. Everyone wants it, but few people have it. Download this free worksheet to begin developing this skill for yourself:CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD
You can still grab these two free downloads that correspond to the Know, Love, Grow series. Get them now before they go away!
January Free Download – 30 Journaling questions to get to know yourself better: Click HERE
February Free Download – Combatting Shame: Click HERE
To listen to more on the Four Horsemen – listen to Episode 58 “Four Relationship Killers and What to Do About Them
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Full Transcript
Conflict is inevitable in family relationships. But what do you do when it shows up? Maybe you try to brush it under a rug, move on and forget. Or maybe your family does a lot of arguing and fighting. If you’re doing either of those, you’re not moving relationships forward by using conflict as your teacher, Crystal Hansen, the couple’s conflict coach is here today to show us why and how we can grow through conflict.
Before we get into this conversation with crystal, I want to remind you that this is the third episode, in Grow month of the Know, Love, Grow series. And if you haven’t been following along, I invite you to go back and catch up on all of these episodes that have been going since the beginning of the year, there are some real nuggets of gold in these episodes.
And just why Know, Love, Grow? What’s so important about Know, Love, Grow? This is how we move relationships forward. This is how we move ourselves forward. When we can Know, and we can accept. And then once we do those two things, then we can start moving forward. But if we don’t recognize that there’s a problem, or that there’s something that even that we want, and except that that is something that exists, we can’t actually do anything about it.
So this is one piece, just one piece of how we can grow a relationship. But I really wanted Crystal to come and talk with me about conflict today. Because we often get so caught up in conflict and don’t know how to use it productively. And to move forward past it.
I also want to remind you that there are free downloads for you this month, you can still pick up the one from January, that’s 30 journaling questions about getting to know yourself better.
You can pick up the one from February about combatting shame, once we start seeing things and really admitting to ourselves what’s been going on inside of our own heads, we can often go into shame. So I’ve got a shame worksheet there for you, to help you work through that shame.
And then this month, there’s a grow worksheet. And that is really helping you to grow into emotional maturity, which is such a key part of being able to grow yourself and to grow a relationship.
So meet me on the other side, but enjoy this conversation that I had with crystal about growing through conflict.
Crystal is my good friend. And she’s been on the podcast before talking about a different subject. But crystal I know is an expert in resolving conflict. So I really want to talk to her today about growing our relationships with ourselves and others through conflict.
So welcome back to the podcast, Crystal,
Crystal Hansen 03:04
thank you for having me, I’m excited, this is gonna be fun.
Tina Gosney 03:09
And we’ve had enough personal conversations for me to know, I know, personally and professionally, that you’re an expert at resolving conflict. So you’re like the perfect person to be talking about with this. Because as we go into this grow month, I think conflict is really something that most of us have been taught to avoid. And to just move on, get over it. Push it under the rug, just it’s your problem. You know, all the things like that, that we’ve been told for so many years. And then we end up not ever really, truly resolving things within ourselves and our relationships. And when we don’t feel resolution we can’t actually grow.
Crystal Hansen 03:53
Absolutely, yeah, it’s definitely something we’ve been taught to keep the peace, right, like we’re supposed to be peacekeepers. And we want everything to be happy and kind and lovely. And what it really ends up doing is just starting a war inside of ourselves.
Tina Gosney 04:09
Which accounts for a lot. No wonder we have so much conflict within that we don’t show without, I think especially that applies to women, as we’re told to keep the peace and to not cause problems. You’re too much you need to calm down, we get told a lot of things. And we end up internalizing them and not ever really vocalizing what we need for ourselves.
Crystal Hansen 04:35
Absolutely. And I always think if they would have at least told us like, Hey, you have to keep the peace. But let me give you some tools on how to like, use conflict for growth, it probably would have been for a lot better, we probably would have been able to do that a little bit more not as a job but more of just being able to problem solve.
Tina Gosney 04:55
Which imagine if that had been what a different personal inner life you would have had I think most of our lives occur within our own brains. Yes, absolutely. But how that would have also carried into marriages and parenting and all the other relationships that we go and experience through our life were how different those would be.
Crystal Hansen 05:19
Absolutely, absolutely. I that is the one thing that I like, if I’m going to teach my kids anything it is to be kind, and to own your own stuff. So being able to manage conflict, is that, yeah, so great.
Tina Gosney 05:35
So why do you think that people have traditionally told us that conflict is bad? We need to just keep the peace?
Crystal Hansen 05:45
I think that for a lot of reasons, I mean, conditioning for one like it, things are, we want to be happy all the time, we believed forever. I mean, that’s the goal, right? We know that that’s the triad of life to be comfortable and to feel safe, and to have things be as easy and as smooth as possible. Naturally, we’re inherently wanting it that way. So it makes sense that we want to keep the peace and sweep things under the rug because it feels like a solution. Right?
If we just pretend it’s not there, it feels like a solution. And then whatever’s going on in our heads, that’s something that we just have to step down or seven corner or do something differently. And then we think that the reason why we’re snapping at our children or our spouse or the grocery store, checker person, that’s because, you know, they did something wrong, but really, it’s because we’re not self confronting, and we’re not really taking a look at what’s going on inside of ourselves.
Tina Gosney 06:42
I think it’s like an iceberg, right? So you have the part that you’ve see above the water, which is little tiny piece of it. Yeah. And then that’s all you see from other people. And that’s all you’re willing to show other people as well. But there’s all this big giant hunk of ice underneath the water. And so if we’re all we’re seeing is what other people are showing us above the water. And we know that we have this big chunk of ice underneath the water. But we think we’re the only one. Yeah. And that perpetuates this shame, culture, shame and blame, right? Where there have been, there must be something wrong with me. This is all about me. And I’m not, I’m just not okay. Everybody else is okay. I’m not okay.
Crystal Hansen 07:27
Yes. And I think that’s why I love I mean, I’ve been coined the couple’s conflict coach now. I mean, I that’s what I do. I talk about conflict. And I think that’s why my passion and work is to teach people how conflict is a good thing. It’s not something that we want to avoid. Because when you are that iceberg, if you don’t even realize that there’s a whole mass underneath, and you’re only seeing surface level, that’s even harder to be able to move forward. Because you don’t even see the bigger problem. You’re not even aware of it’s there.
Tina Gosney 08:01
Right? Tell me how you think of conflict. How do you teach your people and in your business? How do you teach them that conflict can be a good thing.
Crystal Hansen 08:11
So I think conflict is such a great tool for us to use for a lot of reasons. But the biggest thing that I started out by teaching people is that conflict is just a notification for ourselves, that we know that something’s out of alignment, or something’s not in the flow of our integrity, or with our value system, right? So something’s going on, or we have some type of belief that something’s happening, that shouldn’t be happening.
So a lot of times, I mean, I work with couples, but I noticed this with my kids, I noticed this with people that I serve with, I noticed this with friends, family, you name it, this is something that is global, it will go with everybody. But when we start feeling conflict, we think that it’s created by the other person, or it’s the other person that’s causing the conflict. And really, it is that notification inside of ourselves that something’s off with us. But because we want to sweep things under the rug, or because we want things to not be our fault, we usually project on the other person, we walk away. I know that you’ve done a podcast on the four horsemen, a lot of times we show up in those categories. And it’s because we’re trying to avoid conflict, and we even hear people say like, avoid conflict.
But for me, conflict is just that emotion that you feel before the contention before the argument default before the defensiveness before the stonewalling. It’s that first moment, that emotion that you feel at the beginning. That’s what conflict is the rest of it. Those are the actions that come afterward.
Tina Gosney 09:47
I think conflict is something that can be a good thing if we allow it to get into contention. The Scriptures tell us to avoid contention, I think Satan’s one of his main roles and his main goals is to get us into contention. If we can address it at the conflict level, and like you said, realize where it’s coming from. And like we’re going to talk about today how to address that in a way that helps us grow rather than destroy. I think that’s going to be productive.
Crystal Hansen 10:20
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Tina Gosney 10:23
And I just want to something that you said just a second ago, where you said, it’s alerting us to something that’s not in alignment, something that’s not right. Those are just going back to January’s month with the whole knowing yourself, knowing who you are, knowing what you want. This can be a big alert there. This can be like one of those breadcrumbs that shows you more about yourself and more about who you are and what you want for yourself and your life.
Crystal Hansen 10:49
Absolutely. Absolutely. Our emotions are truth tellers. I know you’ve had Aimee Gianni on your podcast. And maybe she’s already said that because that isn’t Aimee Gianni quote. But yes, emotions are truth tellers. And so if we look at conflict as an emotion, and a notification, that can be a truth teller, like you said, that’s the perfect piece for that no part when you really get to know yourself and what’s going on, you start figuring out what is entailed in that big iceberg underneath the water.
Tina Gosney 11:18
So let’s get into what this might show up as, sometimes conflicts looks like we can we can get in this tug of war, right? I’m right, no, I’m right. And we just have brains that love to be right. And if you think about how each of us has a human brain, and all human brains love to be right, then no matter then No wonder it looks like a tug of war game. And that we are convinced like our brains are really good at convincing us that we’re right. With very little information. Yeah. Yeah, crazy how we can get we can take on so little facts and just jump to so many conclusions and think that it’s fact and be so just dug into our position.
Crystal Hansen 12:06
Absolutely. And I wish I could tell you that I’m still not the person who thinks that when I think I’m right, I’m pretty sure I could take it to the court of law and prove. Like, that is my one thing that I always have to pay attention to. I’m like, Okay, are we? are we worrying about being right here? Probably not. Let’s probably choose to have love and happiness instead of me being right.
Tina Gosney 12:31
Right? I like to picture a tug of war game, everybody’s played tug of war. If you did elementary school field days, then you play tug of war, right? There’s no real winner in that game. Think about if you pull harder, then you’ve made this other team fall flat on their face, and usually fall backwards, right? When that team lets go of the rope? Yes. But if you look at that, in a relationship, if you are just the one that persists longer, or speaks louder, or whatever, and you are successful in let’s say, the other person, let’s go. That’s not really success. I mean, it might feel like some short term victory, but in the long term, their relationship really is suffering.
Crystal Hansen 13:22
Yeah, well, nobody wins, right? Because usually what you’re tugging on to is trying to prove your hurt, or your pain, or your suffering. So when you do that, if you win that tug of war, you’re left with, yeah, I was hurt. My I have some pain and I have some suffering. Right? Even if you quote unquote, when you’re still left with this thing, that doesn’t feel great.
Tina Gosney 13:48
And there’s not been any resolution there probably.
Crystal Hansen 13:51
Because then usually the person on the floor is like, yeah, I don’t want to talk to you anymore.
Tina Gosney 13:56
Right. Now, I’m hurt too. So congratulations, we’re both heard.
Crystal Hansen 14:01
And we’re gonna not talk. Right?
Tina Gosney 14:05
So let’s just imagine conflict. Okay, so what would be what’s a common example that you give your clients?
Crystal Hansen 14:13
So I’m trying to think, I mean, usually, I give my own examples, because those are the
Tina Gosney 14:22
very well rehearsed in our own are very well
Crystal Hansen 14:25
rehearsed. Exactly. So for instance, I just had this happen with my daughter the other day, where she had come in and she was like, hey, just so you know, my grades aren’t great. And I was like, okay, because I’m not the mom that keeps up on the grade thing. I’m like, you just figure it out. And, and let’s see how it goes. And she was coming into me really defensive about it. And I noticed me kind of going to this place of like, almost defensive back, but I kind of held back For a little bit just because I practice this so hard, and sometimes I’m really good at it, there are days where I’m not always the best at it. But I noticed her coming in defensive. And I immediately that, okay, she’s defensive about this because she feels bad about it. It has nothing to do with me.
But I could have easily been just as defensive as her because she’s coming into me and like copping an attitude about having bad grades. And I didn’t do anything I didn’t you know what I mean? And it’s like, what are we going to do about it? A lot of times to it will be just in those situations with our spouses, or with family members, or any of those types of things that turn into a fight, or turn into not talking, right. I always tell people fighting.
They’re just no one knows how to fight better. There’s just different ways, and one of them’s not more noble than another. So people who Stonewall and choose not to verbalize they’re fighting. It’s still fighting, it’s still saying, basically, I don’t want to talk to you and I don’t care or everything that you’re thinking and saying is invalid. And I don’t support you in it. So often, words are body language.
Tina Gosney 16:13
So often it is about the other person. And what’s happening. When we feel like just like you said, like your daughter like it was about her and how she was feeling about her own grades. That can be a really hard thing to distinguish and tell you’ve really paid attention to different kinds of conflict, different types of way that you react when you’re feeling a certain way. Yes, how other people react when they’re feeling a certain way, I would say that takes a lot of money to put it all back into emotional maturity.
Crystal Hansen 16:44
So much practice. And that’s why and even why I tell that story is just for the fact to show you that conflict really is a good thing. It can lead to connection, it can lead to all those things. But it takes embracing it and really being willing to do the work to have it be a tool, because we have been trained so long to fear it that we even have to get, we just have to get comfortable with the idea of not even fearing it in the first place. If you
Tina Gosney 17:10
had just looked at that tip of the iceberg that your daughter had brought, and just focused on the grades, or maybe on her attitude, as she came in and told you about those, yes, you would have been missing so much.
Crystal Hansen 17:24
For sure. I think back on like even three, four years ago, I guess it’s been longer than that. I’m gonna age myself a little bit more. But when she came in, like first year of junior high and had, you know, bad grades and same thing she’s defensive and mad and the 70. Other have, I’m going back at her like, Well, you haven’t put any time I haven’t seen you to I haven’t seen you bringing books home, I haven’t seen you do anything. It’s not my fault. I’m not the one that’s doing it, you’re the one that needs to write, it turns into this like defensiveness or placing the blame or criticizing, like all of those things, like they all just come storming out because we start matching that emotion and that vibration. So they come in with a high intense vibration emotion, typically we naturally match that.
Tina Gosney 18:10
Right? How did you not match it that day.
Crystal Hansen 18:14
So it took a lot of it takes a lot of practice. And it’s I tell my clients, this, it’s an inside job. Being able to learn how to do this is entirely an inside job that has nothing to do with how somebody else is gonna show up because our kids, our husbands, our family members, you name it, coworkers, church members, we have no control over how they show up. We only have control how we show up. And it’s taking it a step further than just like, Oh, I’m just going to ignore it and keep the peace and pretend like everything’s okay, right?
Because sometimes we don’t want to sometimes we don’t want to, you know, they come to us with something and we actually do want to show up, but not in an aggressive fighting way in a in a more loving teaching opportunity. So, for me, it was taking a lot of time to really self reflect. And sometimes you catch yourself in the moment, and sometimes it’s after. And I will be the first to admit sometimes I look back on it. And it was a week ago that I finally I’m like, oh yeah.
Tina Gosney 19:18
Okay,
Crystal Hansen 19:19
I did this, but getting in the habit of catching it whenever you do, to take a look at it and to unpack it a little bit and be like, Okay, this happened. And I started to feel this. Why? Why did I feel like that? Do I like my reasons for it? I not like my reasons for it. What am I willing to own in the matter of how I showed up afterwards? Do I need to give an apology? Right. I’m a firm believer that the best way to teach your kids and other family members and friends how to be really good at giving apologies is to give them yourself a lot.
I try to apologize to my kids as much as I can so that they can see that it’s okay to apologize and also recognize what it feels like. So really taking a look and unpacking it. And progressively it gets, the window gets smaller and smaller as you really make an effort to not ignore it. Like I said it, it’s being able to confront it even when it’s like, oh, yeah, I did this last week. And it’s like, well, it’s over and said and done with, let’s just not worry, I’ll try better next time. It’s showing your brain know, like, this is what we’re going to do when this happens when these emotions come up.
This is what our this is what our thought process is going to be not this old way that leads to contention and conflict. It’s I mean, fighting, not conflict, but it’s going back, it’s going back and showing your brain like no, this is this is the new way that we want to do this. And it takes a lot of practice and a lot of work. But there’s so much growth in that. And there’s so much compassion that comes from that you start to be able to see things, that’s how I’m able to see things, looking at my daughter, because I’ve been able to give myself compassion and be able to see it and see how our humaneness comes out all the time. And when we normalize that, then we’re able to have compassion for other people and slow it down for ourselves.
Tina Gosney 21:18
I love so much of what you just said. So I want to just pick it apart a little bit, dumped it out. Okay. So if we go back to you said, I was able to just kind of take a step back and look at okay, what was what were my reactions? And I practice doing this over time, right? So something comes up, I have a reaction, and then I am packing it later, maybe sometimes in the moment, but at first, it probably happens later. Like, okay, what was my part in this? I see this, I think, unless we’re open to really looking at ourselves and holding that discomfort, because that is an uncomfortable thing to do. Right? Absolutely.
We really are willing to open ourselves up and see this was my part in this. That’s the no part. Like I recognize this that I did. Don’t love this, I can either push it back into the rug and say, I don’t want to look at that. That’s the shame. That’s the That’s not okay. I have to I have to change myself, right? Or there’s the Yeah, this is what I do. I and if I’m truthful, I probably do this a lot more than I even recognize that I’m doing it. Because we all live in our patterns, right? Absolutely. And if we’re willing to just hold the discomfort of Yes, I did this. And this is why and I’m human. And now what do I want to do about it? That’s, that’s the growth.
And you’re talking about doing that process over and over and over again, so many times that now your daughter can walk in the room and start talking about her grades in a way that you previously would have reacted one way, but now it’s what’s going on for her? Why is she acting this way? Yeah. And you’re able to focus more on her than what you said before, it was very inward focused and will go this isn’t my fault. I didn’t do anything.
But now it’s, I can help my daughter because it’s doesn’t mean anything about me. She’s just giving me some information here that she is having a hard time in school. How can I help her doesn’t mean anything about me. What a gift for yourself and for your daughter.
Crystal Hansen 23:37
Yeah, well, and the best part is, is we’re showing up as the people we want to be instead of this person that’s just driven by emotion. I think that the most important thing that we need to look at and shine a light on is we really get to choose our hard because sweeping under the rug, and avoiding conflict that is still creating heart the conflicts just inside the contentions just inside. We usually react to it later, right? It usually comes in the form of resentment. So we can choose our heart for stagnancy, or we can choose our heart for growth. And it’s entirely up to us what we want to do with it.
Tina Gosney 24:17
Well, and think about if it keeps getting swept under the rug in a relationship, that is a pattern to it gets swept under the rug again, and again. And again, pretty soon there’s a big giant bump in that rug. There’s a lot of dirt under that rug, and you’re constantly tripping over it. And it can if you’re not going to deal with it. Sometimes it just comes to deal with you eventually.
Crystal Hansen 24:39
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So it feels like oh, this is so hard. And this is a lot of work and I don’t want to do it. But pick your heart. That’s always what I liked. What heart do I want to do? I want to take the heart that’s going to move me forward and help me be the person that I want to be. That creates less Can conflict and contention or do I want to do the hard work? I’m just staying the same cycle over and over and over again.
Tina Gosney 25:11
Let’s go into the Four Horsemen again, because I think that’s a good review, always to see. Like, these are the things that can come up that cause can cause problems to escalate further. And if we address them, in the antidotes that each one has, then we’re actually moving more into a growth situation than a, I’m gonna destroy this relationship, because I’m not reacting in a productive way kind of situation. So let’s just review what those horsemen are. We have criticism.
Crystal Hansen 25:42
So what criticism looks like is attacking someone’s character or like placing blame, right? Looking always do that. Why do you always do that? Yes. Why do you always make us late? You never can get ready on time. You never do this.
Tina Gosney 26:02
Like global sweeping statements.
Crystal Hansen 26:05
Yes, yes. It’s not pinpointed. It’s more just like you said, it’s more global.
Tina Gosney 26:11
And when we do that type of behavior, it makes the person the problem, which then that person feels? Well, we’re actually telling them that they’re the problem. And they’re feeling that they’re the problem at the same time. We can take the problem out of the person and put it in front of us. And then we’re both looking at this. Like, let’s take a look at why you’re late. What’s happening in the morning, is there some changes that we need to make so you can get to school on time, or we can get to church on time, or anywhere on time? We can, you know, take, we can take the problem out of the person and instead look at it as something that we’re both looking at together trying to solve together.
Crystal Hansen 26:54
Yeah, absolutely. And the best antidote to criticism is just having that gentle startup, right? It’s slowing down, taking some breaths like that self soothing, are you talking about that? Just that self soothing? And instead of going into attack mode, right? We want it like, it’s a gentle startup, it’s a gentle conversation, instead of let’s just dive right in and start telling you everything you’re doing wrong.
Tina Gosney 27:24
And which can escalate very easily when we start that way. I think one way that we, when we’re dealing with, we’re trying to move into away from criticism, and denture, that gentle startup, it looks more like focusing on yourself that oh, this is how I feel when this happens. And I would, I would really rather have it be like this. Can we talk about that?
Crystal Hansen 27:48
Yeah. And even going into your example to where it’s like, okay, how can we help you with this lateness? What it would look like it’d be to get to that point where you can have that conversation. It’s, why is this frustrating me that we’re late? Why is late a problem. Some parents don’t care if their kids are late to school, and some do, it’s not a wrong or right, you just get to decide if you like your reasons for it. But the delivery is the most important, right? How we deliver and how we communicate with our with our kids, is the most important.
Tina Gosney 28:22
There’s one way that we talk to our kids. And then there’s another way that we would address this with a spouse. And so let’s just say your husband is consistently late every time you’re going to anything like your husband, which I know a couple of them that are like that. So husbands are sometimes late. What would that look like? Because you talk to a child differently than you talk to a spouse?
Crystal Hansen 28:49
Absolutely. That would definitely look like more even more global of like you always make us late. And when is the best and you’re a couple and you have kids. It’s even more painful, right? Because it’s a them versus me, right? Putting your spouse on an island by themselves. And then you and the kids are on the other one. And it’s this big. It feels very, like a global attack really. And it’s lonely. Like it puts somebody in a position where they felt pretty isolated, which doesn’t ever feel good. Right? Immediately. Next,
Tina Gosney 29:28
How would you do a gentle startup there?
Crystal Hansen 29:31
So I’m actually going to tell you this as an example in reverse because I am the one that is always late to church especially. We had 8:30 Church last year. And sorry, yeah, I I’m the church is slightly less true at 8:30 in the morning, I’m just gonna tell you.
Crystal Hansen 29:50
But I my husband finally got released from a bishopric like at the beginning of last year and so he was actually here in the morning and I was convinced So the reason why we were late is because I there wasn’t two of us to get everybody out the door. Yeah, that’s not true. So he really likes to be on time. And so it was kind of a contention, arguing, fighting. You know, we all know the story.
Everybody’s like mad and at church and everyone’s ticked, right? Plus were like, tired, and that doesn’t help anything. So I noticed after, I don’t even know how much time but like, one day, I kind of noticed, I’m like, oh, like, Sunday mornings actually go really good now, like, this is really great. I wonder what’s going on or whatever.
And I started to notice that my husband would help the kids and do whatever that needed to be done. And he’d come in, and he gives me a kiss and say, Hey, we’re gonna, I’m gonna go with this one. And this one, this one’s not ready. So if you guys just want to come and we’ll go save a seat. That was that was the shift for him. It was him looking at it and saying, do I really care? And he’s told me like, what what he did I because I had told him, I’m like, This has been so nice. Like, thank you so much for making Sunday so much easier.
And he’s like, you know, I just had to look at it and say, do I really care if we’re late? Does it really matter? Do Is it worth causing fighting and contention? Not really, I don’t really care. And the truth of the matter is, is you’re not making me late. I can go in another car and be on time if I want to, which is what he ended up doing. He just took his car, and I took mine. And it worked out great. So for us, that works for us. And for him that works for him. But it was him being able to find a solution within him. And it was one that I didn’t even have to communicate with them other than just my appreciation, and how much that meant to me that he he just fixed that problem for us as a couple.
Tina Gosney 31:54
What a great example. Yeah, and maybe we should have him on the podcast, too.
Crystal Hansen 31:59
I know. He’s awesome. Awesome.
Tina Gosney 32:03
So after criticism, we have contempt. So this takes that criticism to a new level. Because it really is globally attack attacking your character. And inherently like there’s just something wrong with
Crystal Hansen 32:16
you. It’s self worth. It’s attacking people’s self worth, it’s attacking who they are as a person. Very, it’s very serious. I mean, the Gottman say that this is the number one indicator of divorce is marriages that have contempt in them. And that isn’t acknowledged and goes on. Untreated.
Tina Gosney 32:39
What’s the antidote for contempt?
Crystal Hansen 32:42
It’s a fun one. Yeah, just scribing your feelings?
Tina Gosney 32:48
Most people are gonna cringe right there.
Crystal Hansen 32:52
Because when you’re going to somebody, and you’re saying, You’re such an idiot, I can’t believe that you like that you even think this way, what in the world is wrong with you that you would ever think that I think a lot of people will probably be able to notice a lot of contempt, especially in families that have different political views, different religious views, different health care views. I mean, a lot of contempt comes into those conversations.
So those are really easy ones to notice. I think everybody can kind of relate to those. But it’s attacking someone’s character. It’s telling them that they’re wrong, that they’re, you’re an idiot for thinking this. There’s, there’s something wrong with you. And instead of doing that, it’s saying, You know what, this really scares me actually, I feel really nervous about this topic. And this is why I’m feeling unsafe right now. And typically, that’s what it is, is it’s not feeling safe, not feeling secure, not feeling seen and heard. It’s coming from that. And typically, there’s some anger at the beginning. And we know anger is a secondary emotion. So it’s getting rid of the anger, which is going to Okay, now I got to figure out what feelings I’m feeling and why this is happening.
And explaining to the this person like, this is what I’m feeling that’s having a conversation about it, instead of projecting it onto somebody else. It’s, it’s really like noticing, okay, this is because contempt is so serious. There’s a lot of serious emotions and heavy things going on internally that need to be looked at.
Tina Gosney 34:30
And that really takes not doing this in the moment but taking a step back and allowing yourself to do that inner work. First of what is this emotion happening for me that I even can describe and tell this person what I need and how this is not okay.
Crystal Hansen 34:48
Absolutely. Absolutely. Takes a lot of vulnerability, which is why it’s hard.
Tina Gosney 34:52
Yeah, we don’t. There’s a reason vulnerability is kind of a cringy word because it feels terrible. Yeah, it’s something that we don’t want to look at. But there’s, there’s a reason that it’s hard. But it also the harder things that we do have the ability to produce more growth.
Crystal Hansen 35:12
Absolutely. I love how Brene Brown affiliates, vulnerability with courage, the most courageous people that are willing to be vulnerable. It takes an immense amount of courage to be.
Tina Gosney 35:25
But typically, we get defensive, which is number three of the horsemen, we put up walls, we start gathering our ammo together, we, you know, draw up the drawbridge.
Crystal Hansen 35:38
We reflect we start acting like the victim to either blame or to get out of it to be able to get out of the hot seat.
Tina Gosney 35:49
And this is that, becoming the victim. Like, I can’t believe you’re doing this to me again. You just keep picking on me. I can never make you happy, right?
Crystal Hansen 35:58
Yes, we see that in kids. Right? Like, Well, you never make this one do it? Like I always love the dishwasher dishes you never make so and so do it. They never do it
Tina Gosney 36:07
So what’s there’s the antidote for this one, which and we don’t want to be defensive. Because as Byron Katie says, this is this is a starting a war. Yeah, like, I’m just gonna gather my ammo in case you want to throw anything more at me. I’ve got plenty of my own. Yes,
Crystal Hansen 36:26
It’s like I’m ready. I’m ready with my list of rebuttals, right, to combat it. So, I mean, that and once again, not a fun one to do. People will cringe. But it’s taking responsibility. So actually taking a step back and saying what is mine to own here?
Tina Gosney 36:49
And when we’re in such a negative mind frame, that can be hard to see what is yours to own.
Crystal Hansen 36:55
Absolutely, absolutely. And it, it does take that work of of self awareness, and being able to realize that we really are in the driver’s seat of most things in our lives, we just have to take the time to pay attention to what we’re thinking and how that’s making us feel, and how that’s leading us to show up. And that’s what’s getting us there.
But I think also being able to have the grace and the compassion for ourselves to realize that I love how Amy Gianni talks about how you know, in between something that is factual, and then the thoughts that we have about that is a context filter. So we have to have a lot of compassion for ourselves to circle back and be like, Okay, there’s a reason why I am thinking this because this is either something I’ve always been taught, this is how my family always did it.
This is the culture this is, you know, for whatever reason, so it makes sense that I’m thinking this way. And even by taking responsibility of like, Yes, I do think this way, but then also having compassion, like, and it makes sense. That’s really easy to own it. Because it’s saying, Yeah, I do feel this way. But this is why and it completely makes sense. And I don’t want to continue this. It’s so powerful, because it’s taking the pressure and the power out of anything. And putting it into you to just be in charge of like, this is how it’s been. And I’m going to, I’m going to try to do something different. I’m gonna practice.
Tina Gosney 38:20
Yeah, for sure. I love that context filter. And if we just go back to that example, with your daughter, she had a context filter of, I don’t know, maybe I got a test back today. And I didn’t get a good grade on it. Like that was something that was factoring into her coming and saying that to you that day.
Crystal Hansen 38:41
Yes. And I can even probably go as far as to say, I mean, she’s just finishing up ninth grade, and she’s been able to go through junior high, having a 4.0 the entire time. And so you know, we’re getting down to the wire, and it’s like this last best last little bit. And so for her in her head, it’s like, oh, I want to get a 4.0 This is my this is my goal. And it might not be attainable. And so it makes sense that she’s going to be feeling not great about it and not happy and maybe overwhelmed and stressed. And that’s just a go to sometimes is to be more sensitive.
Tina Gosney 39:21
When we start to recognize context filters in ourselves, we can start seeing them and other people. And I think that allows us a lot of compassion. Yes. Let me see what’s going on for this person. Why this is happening right now?
Crystal Hansen 39:36
Absolutely.
Tina Gosney 39:38
The fourth and let’s just briefly go on this one, but the stonewalling Horseman is I think that’s one of my have has been one of my favorites. I know it’s not one of yours. traditionally been one place that I’ve gone, where you just kind of shut the person out in this point. We’ve already put up the walls but we’ve already just like dropped the ammo and walked away. And we’re not engaging anymore.
Crystal Hansen 40:01
Yes. And I think the other point of this, that I think is probably what makes me hate stonewalling so much is because that act in and of itself is in, in the effort to place the blame on the person you’re walking away from. It’s like, yeah, it’s
Tina Gosney 40:18
I’m gonna make a point right now, I’m not talking to you. Yes,
Crystal Hansen 40:21
we’re gonna make this point that you’re to blame. I’m gonna place the blame on you or somebody else. And it is not on me.
Tina Gosney 40:29
Yeah. So I actually love this anecdote. And let’s go farther into this one, because this one is self soothing. And let’s talk about what that looks like to self soothe. For me. For me, it’s like, I need to physically get myself out of this location that I’m in right now. And I need to go and do something else for a little while. And I need to just breathe. Yeah, that’s what self soothing typically looks like for me. What about for you?
Crystal Hansen 41:00
Self soothing, for me is definitely taking a break. Taking some breaths, sometimes it requires a drive, sometimes it requires a walk. Sometimes it requires like, five seconds, or more people just not saying mom or crystal, I need this. Yeah, it’s just kind of depends what it is. But it really is kind of just getting grounded. And however that works for everybody, depending on what it is, just to be able to, like you said, self soothe, be able to calm yourself in that moment. And it’s some a lot of times it does take walking away.
Tina Gosney 41:39
Yeah. And I think that walking away, sometimes gets a hard rap. Because that looks like you’re disengaging. Or we’ve been told like, Oh, don’t ever go to bed angry. Well, I think that’s garbage. Hi, I am not a night person. And if you asked me to start doing some higher thinking, or processing at night, you’re not going to get the best version of me. If you did it at five o’clock in the morning, you’d get a lot better version, but not anytime after night.
Crystal Hansen 42:12
I am a night person and it’s still not good. No one ever does anything well tired. And even just when you keep getting resistance, like you still like every time you go back, you’re hitting a wall with each other. That’s a good indication that it’s like okay, we need to take a timeout because there’s no point. I think the difference between stonewalling and walking away is the boundaries and the parameters you put on it. So there’s a difference between stonewalling, which is placing blame and just leaving the conversation and then hiding in the tall grass until the dust is settled, and everything’s okay. Again, versus self soothing. And then being willing to come back and have the conversation again, in a more productive way.
Tina Gosney 42:56
Yes, exactly. When you’re in a different frame of mind, so much better.
Crystal Hansen 43:03
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think that like, we stone wall stonewalling is such a good thing to pay attention to because we’re either stonewalling other people, or we’re stonewalling ourselves. So if we don’t take a look inside when there’s conflict, or stonewalling ourselves, or placing the blame on something or someone else, but we’re still holding on to the emotion.
Yeah. And so that’s why I think stonewalling is so important to look at while it’s not my favorite, I have been able to see that. I’m either stonewalling myself, or people are stonewalling me. But either way, nothing good is coming from that. So it’s being willing to come back and have the conversation with myself, or my spouse or with my kids.
I think a lot of times we think as parents, oh, we need to teach them how to do these things. And how do I teach them? How do I teach them, the best way to teach them is through action. So when you’ve gone and self soothe, and not escalated, and then circle back from this more grounded place, being willing to own what was yours, being willing to say, Hey, this is what I was thinking and feeling. This is why I reacted this way, wasn’t my best self in that moment. It’s not how I want to show up, but I’m human and it happens. And I just want you to know I love you.
That’s first of all gonna make your kids feel pretty darn good. And second of all, it’s being the example of what you want to be. And the same thing goes with, with your spouse too. I mean, we we map each other, we mirror each other’s emotions. And so when one person kind of changes things that can be a little dicey at first, but we really all start kind of catching on to the pattern and you do see a lot more peace and a lot less contention and fighting because people are naturally in the habit of self soothing just in general.
Tina Gosney 44:50
Crystal I’ve loved this conversation that we’ve had today because I think it it just kind of gives us a framework for noticing how How conflict can really drive us to one place or to another? And how do we healthily take care of the conflict? So that we’re moving ourselves forward into who we want to be. And we’re moving our relationships forward and not keep keeping them stagnant or destroying things.
Crystal Hansen 45:23
I think that being able to recognize and realize that this is a long game, it’s not something that we can master, it’s not something that we can arrive to and can pass the finish line. But just having a lot of compassion and grace for ourselves as we go through this, because it’s a habit. It’s something we’ve watched, we’ve seen, we see it in movies, we hear it, we see it everywhere. So it makes sense that this is how it is. So just even knowing that that it’s like, the whole purpose of this isn’t to arrive at a finish line. It’s just being able to refine ourselves to a better version that we like more, where we get to show up more authentically of who we are and who we want to be.
Tina Gosney 46:10
And this is definitely a skill that you practice, you develop. You learn more, you practice more, you keep developing. And it’s not like you said, it’s not somewhere that you arrive. It’s something that you just keep working at. Yeah, yeah. Because you care about yourself, and you care about your people. Right? So you keep showing up and you keep doing the work. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you, Crystal. Hey, if people want to get ahold of you later, how do they do that?
Crystal Hansen 46:37
So you can find me on my website, crystalhansencoaching.com, I’m on Instagram, it’s just @crystalhansen_ is my handle, there’s links to get a hold of me there. I say that I’m good on Facebook, but I’m not always great on Facebook.
Tina Gosney 46:51
Great. Well, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate this.
Crystal Hansen 46:56
Thanks for having me.
Tina Gosney 46:59
Hope you enjoyed this conversation that I have with Crystal, I think it’s a pretty novel concept for most people to think that we can even grow through conflict, that that’s even a possibility. Because we’ve been told for so many years, that it’s just something that you’re supposed to avoid. But like we said, when you just sweep things under the rug, eventually you get a really big pile under the rug, and you start tripping over it and you can’t avoid it. And then things really start to get out of control.
So it’s better to just deal with things as they come along. And I hope that you’ve really learned some ways to handle conflict today. I want you to really think about when we were talking about self soothing, when we were talking about how do we handle conflict? How do we calm ourselves down enough to be able to go into these strategies to combat the four horsemen.
And the first thing we said was, you need to calm yourself down, you need to self soothe, that might look like taking some deep breaths, taking a break, going and doing something new that you weren’t doing what you were doing before, when you got into the conflict. It means to ground yourself some way of self soothing, this is something that I teach in my program.
And this is maybe you have a way that you already know of self soothing, I for years used as I’m a musician, I’ve used music, and I go on I play one of my instruments and work through on my emotions that way. What is it for you, that helps you to work through your emotions. I know some people like to go for a run or go to the gym. And also people grab a journal and like to start writing things down. What is it for you, that helps you to calm down and come back to yourself?
The next step is to really confront yourself. This doesn’t sound really great. And I’ve done a whole podcast episode last month on self confronting, but we really start to ask ourself, what was my role here? What was my role? And where is my responsibility? And what’s not my responsibility? We really can’t ask ourselves these questions until we’ve come from a very grounded place.
Once we’ve discovered, okay, this is how I’ve contributed to the situation, what’s left, what’s left over, what’s left over, you might want to go through these three questions. Is this something that I just want to let go of? Is this something that now that I’ve owned my own piece, I’ve calmed down and I’ve owned my own part in it? Is it something that I just want to let go? And a lot of times the answer is going to be yes. The second question is, is this something that I need to change my thinking about? Do I need to look at this differently? How can I open up and expand my view to see things differently, which is a really a useful practice too. The third thing, the third question we want to ask ourselves is, what am I really wanting here? Is this something that I want to ask for or make a request for? Is it important enough for me to stand up for what I want? And you might get to this question is a yes, it really is this important for me to bring it up and to want to talk about it, and say, This is what I would really like to have happen.
Now making a request and telling another person, what’s important to you, is putting yourself in a vulnerable position. And a lot of the things that we talked about today, put you in a vulnerable position, but opening yourself up to being known. You’re saying, this is important to me. And this is what we call a bid for connection.
And Gottmans talk all about bid bids for connection. In fact, I’ve got an episode coming up soon about bids for connection. Calm yourself down, self confront to say what is my responsibility and what’s not, and then run it through those three questions. And lots of times, that’s enough to take care of the conflict right there. But don’t forget about those four horsemen if you want to know more about those four horsemen, because we didn’t go too far into it today. But I have a whole podcast episode on just the Four Horsemen and you’ll find a link to that in the show notes.
Thanks for being with me here today on week three of grow money. I have a great episode on emotional maturity planned for you next week. So I will see you then don’t forget to go to the show notes and download your free downloads while they’re still available.
Have a great week and I will see you next time.
