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Recognizing Grief and How it Shows Up, with Stephanie Pickle

#049 – Recognizing Grief and How it Shows Up, with Stephanie Pickle

Grief comes when you lose something that was important to you. It doesn’t just come when someone we love dies, it shows up at other times in our lives when we lose something we value or when our life takes a different turn than we expected, and we lose the life we thought we would have. In this episode, Stephanie and I talk about what grief looks like, how to recognize it in yourself and others, and the importance of letting yourself grieve your loss without judging it.

Are you struggling to connect with your young adult child? Do you feel like you’re walking on eggshells, struggling with where they are in their life and the choices they are making, or are you feeling grief because of something you lost that was important to you?

Come to my free Masterclass, May 26, 1:00-2:00 MT

3 Strategies to Begin Healing Your Relationship with Your Young Adult Child: Even if it Feels Impossible Right Now

CLICK HERE TO RESERVE YOUR SPOT

Contact Stephanie Pickle:

Stephaniepicklecoaching.com


Full Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

grief, feel, emotions, people, stephanie, lost, child, find, thought, parents, anger, experience, church, talking, coach, life, guilt, shame, sad, podcast

Tina Gosney 

Welcome to Parenting Through the Detour. You’re listening to Episode 49. Recognizing Grief and How it Shows Up with Stephanie Pickle.

Howard W Hunter said, “Your detours and disappointments are the straight and narrow way back to Him.” Well, how are your detours going? Does it feel like everything’s gone wrong and you don’t know what to do now? I’m Tina Gosney, a life and relationship coach for LDS parents, with adult children. And I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I’m going to help you find your footing again through those detours and disappointments. And when you find your strength, and your courage to navigate your own detours, you’re going to begin helping your family through theirs as well.

Welcome back to Parenting Through the Detour on this beautiful May Day, is it beautiful where you are, we finally got some warm weather where I live. And I gotta tell you, I love the sunshine. And I’m really looking forward to summer.

I want to start this podcast today by sharing a review. This review is a five star review from M Pacheco. And it’s titled “loving it!” mpacheco said, “Tina is thoughtful, loving and wise, I highly recommend this podcast to anyone struggling with kids who made choices that are different than the ones you thought they would make.” Thank you mpacheco! I picked this review specifically for this week. Because it’s really what we’re going to be talking today as I talked to Stephanie pickle, you’re going to see how when you’re struggling with the kids who make different choices than you thought they would, how it brings up grief, I would love to read your five star review. For this podcast, go to Apple podcasts, leave me a five star review. And yours might be the next one that I read on this podcast. And you know what else happens when you leave a five star review. It helps other people find this podcast because Apple will boost it up in the rankings. So when you leave a five star review, it helps other people find this podcast. If you are listening and have found episodes that have helped you help somebody else to find those same episodes, go to Apple podcasts and leave a five star review.

I want to tell you about my free masterclass. That’s coming up in next week, May 26. That will be from 1:00-2:00 MT. It’s called

3 Strategies to Begin Repairing Your Relationship with Your Young Adult Child: Even if it Feels Impossible Right Now.

You’re going to find a link in the show notes to go reserve your spot. It’s totally free. I would love for you to show up live, you’ll get more value from it if you show up live. But if that’s impossible, don’t worry, you’re gonna get a replay. If you’re signed up and registered for the class, make sure you go to the show notes and reserving your spot there.

So, this masterclass is for you if you’re feeling angry, sad, frustrated, maybe disappointed for where you are right now with the young adult in your family. Maybe you’ll feel like you’re walking on eggshells in your interactions with them.

You’re biting your tongue a lot, you’re not saying the things that you really want to say. And it feels like sometimes you’re barely holding on here, just barely holding it together. Maybe you feel like a failure because of where you are right now where your child is where your family is. And you’re thinking like if I had been a better parent, then things would be different.

Maybe you find yourself comparing your family to other families, and you feel resentment towards them. Or you feel shame for where you are because your family isn’t different right now. Maybe you’re finding yourself just wanting to numb out those emotions because they feel so painful. So you’re turning to things like food, or work, or sleep or shopping, maybe feels really good to just go buy something. Or maybe it just feels good to check out with Netflix for a little while and bend your favorite show.

But how are you avoiding the hard things that are going on in your family? If you’re feeling any of this and more, this class is for you. And maybe it’s not your young adult that you’re struggling with. Maybe it’s another person in your family. It doesn’t matter because this class is still for you. I’m going to be giving you researched based help researched base relationship tools to help you start moving things in a different direction.

You don’t need to feel stuck and powerless in this situation, you don’t have to be stuck in those emotions, it’s possible to feel different and to heal yourself. And to begin healing that relationship, I want you to come to this class to find out how to begin that process. First register yourself, and then register your spouse, or a parent or a friend, someone that you know, needs this class, and I want you to send them this podcast, or send them their registration link to get signed up. Or maybe you want to do both.

But right now this class is free, it might not always be free, I haven’t decided yet. There might come a day where I’m going to charge for this class. And I will offer it again, but make sure you get in now while it’s free.

So I have this discussion today with Stephanie pickle. And Stephanie is a grief coach, I really wanted to bring Stephanie and because it’s almost universal, in the parents that I talk to, and that I coach that they’re experiencing some type of grief. But they don’t always recognize what it is. Most of the time, they think they’re just really sad, or really angry or so frustrated and disappointed about where they are and where their child is. Or they’re just stuffing down those emotions that are trying so hard to come up. The parent just isn’t letting them come up because they think that everything is going to fall apart if they if they open themselves up to allowing those emotions to be there. And this is why I’m doing this episode with Stephanie.

If you’re a parent that has resonated with this podcast, you’ve likely experienced grief in some form, grief, and that you’ve lost something that was really important to you. And it’s bringing up big emotions in you. That grief is telling you that something you value is gone. Something that were you really wanted and you really valued might be gone. Maybe it’s something you thought you would experience in your life, like seeing a child go on a mission, marry in the temple, seeing your grandchildren get baptized.

Maybe it’s having a close relationship with a child. You see other people have that and you don’t. Maybe it’s something else. What is that for you? What did you expect to have happen right now in your life? And now it’s gone? What are you grieving? That is bringing up big emotions for you. As you listen to this episode, keep that thing that is bringing up those big emotions. Keep it in your mind and in your heart. How do you see yourself doing some of the things that Stephanie and I talk about?

How is grief showing up in your life? write that question down. How is grief showing up in your life? And look at that, have it handy while you listen to this episode. And enjoy this discussion that I have with Stephanie pickle, and I’ll see you on the other side.

Okay, I’m here today with Stephanie pickle. Stephanie has been a friend of mine for at least a couple of years. Yes, longer, right? Yep, we met each other through the coaching world. And Stephanie is she’s amazing. But I’m gonna let her introduce herself to you. So you can see just how amazing she is.

Stephanie Pickle

Oh, wow. Thanks, Tina. Okay, so my name is Stephanie pickle. I live in Utah, I have a family of husband and three kids. And I am a life coach. I have kind of my specialty is grief. And I fell into that because I lost my mom unexpectedly and it threw me into thrust me into this like deep waters of grief that I did not know how to navigate. And so with time and counseling and coaching, I kind of learned some tools that helped me stay in charge of me and not get so stuck in all of the the swirly thoughts that can come up. And I also lost my brother about five years ago to cancer. So I just kind of was finally coming up for air from losing my mom. And then a few years later, lost my brother, but by then I had learned some better, better coping skills and tools. And now I feel like I’d love to share those with other people.

Tina Gosney 

Was the experience from you losing your brother versus losing your mom? Like what was the difference in your ability to navigate that?

It was significantly different. I think when my mom passed away, I was in this world where I honestly like I knew my mom wasn’t gonna live forever, but I also like never occurred to me that she might die or that like somebody in my immediate circle might actually die. And so even just like an eye My mom and I were so so close to so I mean, there’s a big magnitude of you know, and different reasons why it was so big. But I think part of it is because it hadn’t sunk into my mind that this could be a reality for me to lose a loved one. Yeah. And, and so once I came to, to that realization, or that, you know, understanding when my brother was was sick, I kind of had learned that death really is a part of life like you hear it, but it doesn’t for me, it didn’t sink in until it was my reality.

Tina Gosney 

And I’m sure there was a lot of factors, like you just said, like, why it was such a different experience with your mom, and with your brother. But your mom was also pretty young. When she passed, wasn’t she?

Stephanie Pickle

She was 71. Yeah, so it just turned 71 not too long before. For me, I feel like that was really young. And I was quite young, I thought. And so, and I didn’t know anybody else. I had no close friends who had lost their mom, you know, I was like, felt like I was just grasping for like, nobody knows what I’m going through. And I swam in that for a long time, actually, even if people didn’t know what I was going through, I was like, you don’t your experience doesn’t compare to mine. I stayed in that place for a long time. And then but when my brother was passing, I was able to, like, lean into it and let it be kind of a special experience. And it was so good.

Tina Gosney 

We’re talking about grief today. And we’re talking about it, Stephen has had a lot of experience with death. But that’s not really what we’re talking about today, we’re talking about the kind of grief that comes from losing something that was really important to having a big life shift. And all of a sudden, something that you thought was going to be happening in your life is no longer there. Or the way you thought your life was gonna go. Well, now you get to go on a different road. So that grief is still important, it’s still a valid grief that we need to acknowledge.

And so I wanted Stephanie to come on the podcast today, because I know she has so much experience with grief. And so much of the experience through losing a loved one can be similar to the experiences that we have when we have lost something or a path that we thought we were going to follow. And so many parents that I talked to are grieving, something that they thought that an experienced they thought they were going to have or that their child was going to have. I was just talking to a parent a couple of weeks ago, actually.

And she was at church, watching the grandmothers, they were like they’re watching their grandkids do something. And she and her daughter is not active, and her kids, her grandkids don’t go to church. And so she was like, I’m never going to have those experiences of like having my family sit together at church. And like watching my kids get baptized, and you know, the things that you watch your grandkids do. And this was her only child. So this was something that, you know, she wasn’t going to have another one that was going to be doing anything, or giving her other grandchildren that she might have that opportunity. So, you know, we talked about grief and how that plays a part in our lives. And it’s okay. It’s healthy to feel that.

Stephanie Pickle

Yes. And I love that you had said earlier that it’s valid, because I think people if it’s not like, somebody hasn’t passed away, we, we think that it’s not grief, or we think we shouldn’t feel the grief or something, you know, we kind of like have these columns of what’s permissible to feel with certain losses kind of a thing. And I love that you said that it’s valid, because it’s a loss. It’s a loss, and it’s needs to be treated as such, and not downplayed and not dismissed.

Tina Gosney 

And I think that we do that we compare, it’s just part of that human comparison, right? Like, well, you lost your mom and your brother. And I can’t I just shouldn’t be feeling this way because your loss is so much bigger than mine.

Stephanie Pickle

Oh, so much comparison. I heard a quote a while ago. Please help me to not mess it up. But it was saying you can’t be sad because somebody else has it worse is like saying you can’t be happy because somebody else has it better.

Tina Gosney 

Oh, I like that. I’ve never heard that one.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah. And I was like that really puts it into perspective because we never hear well, someone’s Oh has it better so you should feel worse. Right? But we hear well, so and so has it worse, so you should feel better. Yeah, and it’s not true. Like just let your experience be. Beware. but it is

Tina Gosney 

And it’s going to, you’re going to have different kinds of kinds of grief that come to you through your life. And so comparing even your own experiences of one against another is not helpful, either, right? So we’ve talked before about, just acknowledge what you’ve lost. Yes, allow it to be a loss, to give it a voice,

Stephanie Pickle

you view are going to find that you heal much more easily. If you validate what your experience is, if you name it. If you say, you know, this is the feeling that I’m feeling these are the emotions that I’m having this is these are my thoughts about it. And just let them be what they are instead of downplaying them. You give it a voice, let it let it be heard, even if other people aren’t hearing it the way you want them to, which is probably most likely gonna be the case. Yeah, you validate your own story.

Tina Gosney 

Yeah. And feelings are super important. So important. And then when we, when we feel like we shouldn’t be feeling them, we want to shove them away. discount them, like we said before, right? Just like, oh, I shouldn’t be feeling this way, I need to tuck it away, and just ignore it and push it up. We shove it down. Sometimes I’ve talked to quite a few people that say I just don’t think about it, I just go get something to eat. Or I just go take a nap. Or I just get on with my day and do lots of work.

Stephanie Pickle

I bet that we shove it down. Yes. And I bet after they wake up from their nap or finish their meal or you know, whatever it is, that emotion is waiting for them. And it’s going to come right back. Because that’s what they do what we run from as far as emotions go, they will find us.

Tina Gosney 

Yeah, they’re actually there to alert us to something that’s important. Yep. And when you’re feeling grief, when you’re feeling a lot of sadness, it’s telling you that you’ve lost something that was important to you. And feel it.

Stephanie Pickle

Yes. And again, just to going back to like, doesn’t matter if other people wouldn’t feel that grief with that same loss. You know, maybe somebody else’s child doesn’t attend church any longer. And it’s not a huge problem for them. But doesn’t matter it is for you. And that’s okay. Yeah.

Tina Gosney 

And I think that parents, today, parents have a huge tendency to blame themselves, when their kids leave the church or when they take a different path, or when they’re not doing the things that you thought they were always going to be doing as you raise them, and then we just take that blame on ourselves. And it says on top of the sadness, it causes shame, and it causes guilt. And it causes those feelings of failure. And so it just compounds, the feelings, the negative feelings that you’re experiencing.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah, exactly. And all of that is unnecessary, but it doesn’t feel unnecessary. Like our brain is telling us this is a problem. This is a problem. This is a problem. And so we’re like, yeah, all of these things, I’m going to just make this huge smorgasbord buffet of problems, and eat it all day long, you know? And yeah, because that’s what our brains think that. I don’t know why that our brains do it that way. But they do make us think that these things are true. And these things are important. And we have to really decide what story we want to tell ourselves about this. Because, like you said, like we don’t, we don’t have to feel the shame and the guilt. And even though, for whatever reason it feels necessary, it’s not. And so like, try to let go of the things that really you can let go of like you did a great job. I don’t care who you are, what you did, you did really great. And your child is on that path, because that’s the path they chose has nothing to do with you.

Tina Gosney 

Yes. And I just have come to realize that not all of our paths are going to look the same. Now that’s okay. That there are many paths back to God back to the that we’re supposed to follow here on the earth and maybe your child has a different path that will lead them to learn the things that they need to know while they’re here.

Stephanie Pickle

And they’re all beautiful, they’re all valuable, all of those paths.

Tina Gosney 

And God is aware of all of them no matter where they are.

Stephanie Pickle

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it’s a tool that Satan uses. Well, I know it is the shame and the guilt and all of those things. So be it beyond to that. Yeah,

Tina Gosney 

I was sitting in women’s conference, one of the very last mess It just was back in 2013. And they had just put in a new young women’s presidency, general presidency, and they were in the Marriott center, doing like a q&a. It was right before the final, you know, address when everybody meets back. Have you been to women’s conference?

Stephanie Pickle

Not for a little, I’ve been once like 15 years ago, probably?

Tina Gosney 

Well, this was almost 10 years ago. So I think that might have been the last time I was there. But I remember someone asking the presidency, they said, Our youth are struggling, our girls are leaving the church. What? What should we do about it? This is a really scary, I’m paraphrasing the question because I just remember more of the answer than I do question. But the presidency said something like, heavenly Father knows for his daughters are. He’s always aware of where they are. And he will bring them back when it’s time. And at that time, that was really meaningful meat to me, because I was struggling with a lot of this guilt and shame, and sadness and judgment of myself. And I didn’t know that I was grieving something that I had lost, but I was eating. And I’ve never forgotten. That message that the young woman’s presidency gave, like, heavenly Father knows where his children are, and he brings them back when they’re ready. And when it’s time. Yeah,

Stephanie Pickle

that’s a perfect answer, really. And it’s comforting, you know,

Tina Gosney 

It took me a little while longer after that, to get rid of that guilt and the shame, because I was still blaming myself for a lot of things. But I think that that when we indulge in that, and I say indulge only in the way of, we sit in it, and we feed it. And we don’t challenge those thoughts in our brain that it perpetuates it and makes it last longer. Yes. When we keep that guilt and shame and the feelings of failure around last week was Mother’s Day. And I shared on the podcast, something that my really study president said a few years ago, and she was quite a bit older than me. In fact, she was she probably could have been my mother. With how many years older than she may she was. And I remember the week before Mother’s Day, she said something like, Okay, ladies, next week is Mother’s Day. And this big giant grown, went through the whole Relief Society room. And she just kind of smiled. And then she said, You know, I’ve learned that if your kids are doing well, you can’t take all the credit. And if they’re not doing well, you can’t take all the credit. And I thought, Oh,

Stephanie Pickle

that’s great. Yes. Amen.

Tina Gosney 

Good advice to remember.

Stephanie Pickle

Yep. Right. Yeah, your worth is not dependent on the behavior of others. No, including our children. Oh, it’s not? Yeah. For better or for worse. Right.

Tina Gosney 

Yeah. And I we tend to judge ourselves and each other on how our children are doing. Yeah, I think it’s a very poor measurement of value. And it’s really useless to be measuring ourselves in that way. And other people,

Stephanie Pickle

I fully agree, what worked for you to let to let go of that.

Tina Gosney 

It was a long process of doing this kind of work, this coaching work, and like with a coach, and on my own daily work, and, and gospel, you know, gospel principles in far as far as like living into all of those things. But those things, the things that they tell you at church, you need to read your scriptures and pray more, and just have faith and not be fearful. Well, that is really helpful. But there’s times when you need more help. Yes. And many times when Yeah, there are times when it’s, it’s better for you to add help onto that. Read your scripture, say your prayers, be not, don’t be fearful. That it actually, we’ve been given these things to help us. They’re not going to take the place of the things that we hear at church, but they’re there to help those things work better. And I think that’s what helped for me, was to seek outside help. And then I was actually able to find more meaning in the Scriptures because I was able to let go of the shame and the guilt, because those will keep you stuck in a mind frame where you can’t get things out of the Scriptures and receive promptings from the Spirit like it’s a block.

Stephanie Pickle

Yes, it is. So when you let go of the shame and the guilt what what did you find?

Tina Gosney 

Instead, I found a lot Got more love for myself a love for my life a love for my family? And like generally, I would say a love for people in general. Yes. Just for other people. Yes. And letting go of having to have control of everything. I think that was a big one is letting go of control.

That’s a big one for so many people. And I think we’re under this, like, it’s so funny because when we think we’re control, you know, in control, like, pay attention to how out of control we are of ourselves, like, look at how we’re behaving sometimes when we are trying so hard to control other people. Like, we’re actually losing our minds. Like we’re crazy. When we’re trying to be in control. At least I am. I guess I shouldn’t generalize for all people. But that’s how it is for me. I think

Tina Gosney 

that’s really accurate, though, actually. Yeah. Trying to stay in control. You could look like a kind of like a lunatic sometimes.

Stephanie Pickle

Yes. Yeah. So it’s, it’s so nice when you decide that it’s okay. It’s okay to let it go. Every path has purpose. Every choice is meaningful. It’s okay. If it’s different than what our plans were?

Tina Gosney 

Yes, absolutely. Well, there are some things that are pretty common when you’re feeling grief, some additional emotions that come up or some experiences that are common for people. So let’s talk about those. Okay, and the first one that we had discussed was anger.

Stephanie Pickle

Oh yes, big anger. Like right now I see anger in all capital letters like flashing. That’s what I’m seeing in my mind. When I go back to how I was feeling through my grief.

Tina Gosney 

How did you see anger show up for you? And your grief, then?

Stephanie Pickle

Nobody could do anything correctly. If they showed up? That wasn’t correct. If they didn’t show up. That wasn’t correct. Like, really, you know, I had a chip on my shoulder, no matter what anybody? did. I was angry at God. I thought for sure he got this wrong. Like for sure. I was like, maybe you get all the other things right. But you got this one wrong. And so I was angry about that. Yeah, I just looked for so many reasons to like, I just collected this whole, like, jar of anger, just pebbles to add to it. It could I wasn’t finding I wasn’t seeking to find anything. Good. So that’s what I found was nothing good.

Tina Gosney 

Yeah. So I think it’s interesting that you said nobody could do anything. Right. No matter what they did, it was never the right thing. Yes. Do you ever see anybody being operating from that? Have you seen people do that?

Stephanie Pickle

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah, I don’t know what it is, I guess I’d have to dig a little bit more to find out why it is that our brains go to that. Like, I think we think we are unique in our pain. And I mean, in some degree, yes, we are. But I think we think we are the only ones experiencing pain at this level. And so we think nobody else understands. Nobody else, you know, has any idea of what I have going on in my life. And if we’re being technical, that is true, but my point is like, anger is universal pain is universal. We all have it to whatever degree it is. And it’s true for all of us. Like I was not a special unicorn that I was in pain. But I really thought that I was. And it took me time to eventually just let go. And just like maybe, maybe this isn’t helping me. And why I didn’t catch on to that a little sooner, I’m not sure. But then I kind of started to look for to look for the good and be like, how nice that people keep showing up even when I’m really grumpy. And I just kind of barely, you know, just slightly started to where I was white knuckling holding on to the anger kind of started the lesson fingers off and start to find reasons to not be angry. And as you know, and as I know, that’s what I found once I decided to look for that.

Tina Gosney 

And if you have somebody in your life or you see someone that no matter what you do, it’s not right. They could be experiencing some grief. Yes. They could be angry about something that they’ve lost and not know how to use what to do with that anger. And might be just spewing it out into the world.

Stephanie Pickle

And the chances are high that that’s true. I fully I fully agree with that. And sometimes we take offense right? We’re like whoa, like, no matter what I do, I do. Yes, exactly. but it really isn’t about us. But maybe we can flip that a little bit. And instead of like getting kind of offended, or whatever the word might be, the emotion might be like, they must be hurting to be behaving like that, even though I’m reaching out to them in this kind way, you know, just try to give people a little benefit of the doubt, forgiveness, compassion, give that to yourself, too.

Tina Gosney 

I think it’s important to look to for both sides. If some if that’s coming at you, that anger is coming at you. It probably has nothing to do with you. And if you’re spilling out that anger, you might not be seeing things in a way that’s the people are actually trying to show up with you right now be seeing things accurately.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have some 20/20 hindsight now. And I look back, and I think they everybody had the best of intentions, you know, and I just couldn’t, I couldn’t see it. But nobody was like, trying to add fuel to the fire. And you know, and I mean, sometimes I feel like, oh, kind of embarrassed about the way I showed up sometimes. But it was for sure about me, and what was going on for me, nothing to do with them.

Tina Gosney 

And your mother passing away people knew about that. So, yeah, we don’t always know what’s going on in somebody’s life, especially when things are happening with their kids. And you know, when you’re young, a lot of people will post all the cute things and all this stuff on social media. But when things start, they get older, your kids get older, and things start to happen, that you’re not I don’t want to share this with people. It becomes a more of an inward thing. And we hold it in tightly and kind of circle the wagons, yes. might not know what’s going on with somebody.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah, I think you’re safe to assume that everybody has something going on that you don’t know about. And to be gentle. I

Tina Gosney 

think that’s a good thing to remember always is just to be gentle with other people.

Stephanie Pickle

Yes. Yeah. And to not make any way that other people behave. I mean, we talked about this a little bit with with children’s choices, but also the way that other people behave, because we don’t know what they’re going through. But that doesn’t mean anything about us. To remember that as well.

Tina Gosney 

It says everything about the other person and doesn’t really say anything about you. Yeah. What about resentment? I think anger and resentment go almost hand in hand. Sometimes,

Stephanie Pickle

yes. Yeah. Because well, we have these expectations are these ways that we think things should be them? They don’t go that way. So we become angry and resentful of like, No, this is not what I expected. This is not the plan that I mapped out, in my mind. And I think for parents especially, it’s like we have good intentions, right for our children, we want what we think is what’s best for them. And when they have a different idea of what is best for them, then that can be a little tricky. And also the way that people interact with us. When we’re experiencing those, those things that can that can create some resentment to

Tina Gosney 

Yes. And just looking at what somebody else has. And that’s it’s that thing that you’ve lost. Yes. Yes. And being angry and resentful that somebody else still has something that you wanted so badly.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah. And ask yourself how that’s helpful. Because chances are, it’s not. And so see if there’s like, how, how you can let that go a little bit. Release that a little bit.

Tina Gosney 

Yeah. And anger or resentment, both. These are things that will put barriers up between you and another person. And if there’s things that help with guilt and shame, it’s not having a barrier. Yeah, being able to get rid of these things, or to just work through them, without having to spew them on to other people, helps you actually to move forward faster, because you can connect with other people in a more meaningful way to get through them. Yes.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah. And really, when we stopped to look at it, like, we’re all so much more like we’re all having similar experiences. How do I say this more than we are different, right? Like we have. Everybody’s got some pain everybody’s got. And if we can kind of just understand that and like, stop comparing. This person has this. Well, they might be looking at you thinking that they wish that they had what you have. Yeah. In some other different category. Yeah.

Tina Gosney 

We were at a retreat together.

Stephanie Pickle

Yes. Let’s go back.

Tina Gosney 

I was talking to one of the other women, the other coaches that was there and she was telling me see if I can get this right. She said if friend of hers was talking about the atonement, and how can like Jesus never went through childbirth. He never went through. And she had had a son that had just come out as gay. She’s like, he doesn’t know what it’s like to have a son that’s gay. How can he possibly help me with this? And so we were talking about that. And as we discussed it, we said, we kind of came to the conclusion, like, we all have different experiences. And Jesus, of course, did not he was not, it’s not a woman who did not go through childbirth, he was not able to have some of the experiences that we have. But we all have emotions that are similar. Yes. Through our experiences, they create emotions that are very similar to us. And I think that’s what he was feeling.

Stephanie Pickle

This is we know he was good at that.

Tina Gosney 

Oh, yeah. This is like my own thought process. This is like, where we went on this conversation. But as we look at, like him suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane, and how he was in such immense physical pain, we look at emotions, we feel them physically. Right. So he felt those intense physical effects from emotions. So when he says, I know how you feel, huh? I think that’s really accurate. I agree. So even going back to like, maybe somebody else who doesn’t have the same experience as you, they’ve had similar emotions as us. It might be different circumstances. But they’ve had similar emotions, and we can connect with people emotionally, even though we might not understand the exact circumstance that they’re going through.

Stephanie Pickle

Yea, and how I mean, even just as we’re having this conversation, like, I can feel it in my body right now. Like, how much more love is there, when we’re willing to connect versus roll around in the shame and guilt? And like you said, that puts up a block. That is a tool of Satan to just disconnect us?

Tina Gosney 

Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. Satan wants us disconnected. Yeah. Which is first and second greatest commandment, right? Love connects us. Satan wants us disconnected. You know, when I was in the middle of feeling a lot of shame and guilt, and sadness, I would go to church, or I would go to social events. And I would sit in the back. I would try to not sit by anybody. I would sit close to the door. I didn’t volunteer. And was wasn’t super friendly. And I wanted an escape. If I could, yes, I needed it really quick. Did you experience any of that?

Stephanie Pickle

100%? Yep, no eye contact, look at the floor, come late. Leave early. sit by the door. That was my approach at church.

Tina Gosney 

Are you do you notice other people when they do that? No. Are you sensitive to when other somebody else is going through that?

Stephanie Pickle

I try to be? But again, see a lot of the time I don’t know for sure what, what people are feeling. And and I could do better as we have this discussion, like I could do better to notice that. Odds are if somebody’s withdrawing in that way, they’re in pain. And it would be a good idea to reach out. Or at least, you know, acknowledge, make eye contact or give a smile showing

Tina Gosney 

up. Right? Yes, CB they’re not even there. Noticing who’s not there? Yes. Yeah, I love that. And then just allowing that sadness to be there.

Stephanie Pickle

Yes. And knowing that when you are showing up, and when people are showing up, it’s vulnerable.

Tina Gosney 

You feel like, what did what did we say? Oh, you need to tell us that that analogy

Stephanie Pickle

that. Okay. So this is how I felt and I find that it’s probably true for anybody that’s experiencing grief. It’s like you’re outside in your underwear. And you really want to go put your clothes on, but you have no clothes. And you like, have an electric fence around your yard and you can’t like even get out of your yard. And so you’re just like, standing goes no clothes. And people like Oh, I see you don’t have clothes on and you just have to be like, Yeah, I know. Like you can’t do anything about it. And I’m laughing now But it doesn’t feel good. I can tell

Tina Gosney 

It does not feel good. You’re in the middle of that. But that is what it’s like. Yes, that’s completely what it’s like.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah. Want to be like, Hold on, let me run and grab my rope. And there’s no there’s no door to your house. Like you can’t even get a rope. There’s no rope.

Tina Gosney 

No rope. It feels completely, like you’re all exposed and all of your, your nakedness is just out for display.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah. And that’s, that’s hard. And so yeah, to have somebody reach out and try and connect. As hard as it can be sometimes to let people in. You know, maybe it’s worth a shot.

Tina Gosney 

Maybe they can hand you a robe?

Stephanie Pickle

Yes, yeah, they can throw it over the fence.

Tina Gosney 

You know, it’s okay to feel the things that we’ve been talking about. These are just natural ways that you feel as you’re grieving, something that you’ve lost. And like we said before, your emotions are really important, and you need to pay attention to them. They’re really alerting you to something that is important to you. Something that you value, something that it wants you to pay attention to and address. And listening to what your body and your mind need to heal is a really important step in healing.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah, don’t dismiss it. Don’t downplay it. Like you said, it’s something that you that’s important to you. It’s something that you love or something that you know, had high value to you. So it’s worth the effort. To find help work through it in whatever way is going to be helpful.

Tina Gosney 

And sometimes to just let yourself grief, let yourself be sad 100% yourself work through the emotions and not push them away and not tell yourself that you shouldn’t be feeling them. Or that you should be over it already. Or that you need to move on. This is just I need to just move on. Like none of that is helpful.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah, something I love to tell my clients is, of course, you’re feeling sad. Of course, you’re upset, whatever, instead of because of like, I shouldn’t be this way. And I’m like, Of course you are. And tell yourself that like, of course, I’m feeling this way, this is a loss. For me. Of course, I’m filming this right now, and validate yourself in it, it will help you to be able to not

Tina Gosney 

wallow quite as long. One thing I think that we want to know is I will let myself feel that, but only if it lasts for you know, two weeks. Or if I know that it’s going to when it’s going to end. Because we feel like if we allow ourselves to go into the sadness and the grief, let ourselves open up to it, then we’re just gonna get swallowed up in it.

Stephanie Pickle

Isn’t it funny that we think that and it’s really ironic that the opposite is true? Yeah. I was just coaching somebody two nights ago. And she lost her stepdad over the weekend. And she was saying to me, so like, in five years, I’m still going to feel grief. And I was like, most likely, yes, like, but I love it. Now, like I have grown to have this relationship with grief where I’m like, I want to miss my people. Like I want to be a little sad about this situation. But it doesn’t rule me. It’s because I allow. I allow for those emotions when they come up.

Tina Gosney 

And I’ve had those same kind of conversations with parents as they’ve been talking about. Why am I feeling sad? I shouldn’t be feeling sad. My friend had hurt her child and go on a mission and she’s totally fine with it. And I’m like, no, because you lost something that’s important to you. Yeah. And it’s okay to be sad about it. And I’ve had those same conversations like, well, am I still going to be sad in five years? Well, maybe it’s okay. That it’s okay.

Stephanie Pickle

And it’s okay. Yeah, it is. But in the meantime, we learn how to value those. What we considered negative emotions, like for me now, like, I like we just had Mother’s Day, right? And of course, that’s kind of an emotional day for me. I like that now. Like I like like, I want to be sad and miss my mom a little bit on Mother’s Day. That’s okay. You know, so I think if we’re just like, of course, they get like allowing it like, yeah, when you go to a homecoming, of course you might feel sad. Okay.

Tina Gosney 

And when you allow those emotions, they don’t run your life anymore. Yep. When you don’t allow them, they tend to take you for a ride a crazy ride.

Stephanie Pickle

100% You’re like the victim of that. Like you’re at the effect of them.

Tina Gosney 

Yeah. Yeah. It’s so interesting how what we think is gonna happen actually, the opposite happens. Yeah.

Stephanie Pickle

It really does. as in it’s why is that a hard thing to learn? Or why isn’t that more frequently taught? I don’t know. But you know, it’s it’s a magic. It’s a little bit of magic to be able to actually process. Process it. Yeah.

Tina Gosney 

And as you move into those emotions, the uncertainty of what’s going to happen if you open yourself up to them can be really scary.

Stephanie Pickle

Yeah, it’s that vulnerability all over again. Yeah. Yeah. So you’re like, wait, but at least what I’m feeling right now is familiar. Like, it doesn’t feel great, but at least it’s familiar. Yeah. And then you’re like, What’s this new thing feels unfamiliar. And scary. And so it does. It’s, you’re taking a chance to be willing to give it a shot.

Tina Gosney 

Yeah, and we were talking about, okay, if we know that it was just gonna last for this long. Then okay, I can do this, too. It’s been over two years ago that COVID started. I remember the first time I went to the store, and somebody had a mask on. And I was like, What? What has happened? We don’t live in a country where you wear a mask to the grocery store. Yep. And I thought That’s so silly. There’s always just going to be gone next week, the next week, or people were wearing masks. And I just felt like I was living this alternate universe, this alternate reality? Yes. That it was, I don’t know, this is not the place that I live. This is not our country, like they live. They wear masks over there on the other side of the world. We don’t wear them here. Then everybody had a mask on pretty soon. And then it was okay, I’ll wear a mask for a couple of months, telling me I have to wear a mask. If I want to leave my house. So Fine. I’ll leave him I’ll wear a mask. But then they just actually they just lifted the mask mandate? It definitely. That was it lasted for about two years, that’s sure to if you knew that it was going to last for two years at the beginning of COVID. And the mat, the wearing of the masks and all the things. What would you have said? Oh,

Stephanie Pickle

I don’t think I could have even wrap my brain around it. I wouldn’t have believed it. You know, yeah, I would have thought we couldn’t manage it. I would have thought we can’t. That can’t be right.

Tina Gosney 

No, but we got through it.

Stephanie Pickle

We got through it. We did it.

Tina Gosney 

But we always want we’re doing it things last,

Stephanie Pickle

we want a definitive certainty.

Tina Gosney 

Yes.

Stephanie Pickle

There is no certainty. Why are we craving it so badly? Because that’s just like, an illusion.

Tina Gosney 

We I think we live that’s the society that we live in. Yeah, we live in a society where we want answers to things, we can get answers to things pretty easy. We can streamline, we do want to just be able to rely on things. And then when we realize that we really don’t have control over a lot of things. And there’s a lot of uncertain things in the world. It’s very unsettling.

Stephanie Pickle

Yes. But yet we do it. Right. Like, pretty much everything we do is not certain, as you just illustrated with the situation, like you just would have dreamt that that would be the reality.

Tina Gosney 

We just think that we know what’s gonna happen. Yeah, I really don’t know. So opening ourselves up to not knowing the future, not being certain of things. I heard the, the definition. Well, faith, the opposite of faith is certainty. And so when we open ourselves up to faith, we open ourselves up to uncertainty. So

Stephanie Pickle

good. Yeah, I had not heard that. I love that.

Tina Gosney 

Yeah. Thinking that we have all the answers that we know all the things is not faith.

Stephanie Pickle

I saw somewhere on a I don’t know where I saw it. But it said basically the same thing, like certainty is dangerous, or something like that. Like when we are certain that we have the right, whatever. That’s actually dangerous. Yeah. Yeah.

Tina Gosney 

And I think part of this human experience is to live with uncertainty. It has to be to be in our life. Yes. I think that’s how we grow. How we learn and we grow. We just take a step forward not knowing for sure. What’s going to happen.

Stephanie Pickle

Well, yeah, I mean, as you’re saying that I’m thinking like even just like from learning how to read to learning how to go through difficult things, like all of it is being willing to take that next step into what’s unknown.

Tina Gosney 

What else do you think that is? is relevant to parents dealing with grief around where their kids are, that we haven’t talked about yet.

Stephanie Pickle

Something I think might be helpful that was, is just to even say like this might not always feel so big. Because in the in the moments when it does feel so big, we kind of tell ourselves, like, we almost feel like this is what we’re sentenced to forever. And so if we just even can tell ourselves like maybe this won’t always feel this big, just even like, throw in a tiny way of like, considering the possibility that it might not always feel so big, you’ll eventually start to find ways that it doesn’t feel so big.

Tina Gosney 

I like that. I think I did something similar when I was going through it. And it was, I was thinking something like, it’s not always going to be this way. Yeah. There’s going to be a time when it’s different. Yeah. And I think that was really helpful

Stephanie Pickle

to me. Yeah, just having that being open to that is going to help you find, you know, your way into the more accepting realm rather than the resisting.

Tina Gosney 

Yeah. This is beautiful. Stephanie.

Stephanie Pickle

That’s so good. Like, I just like, I can like, fill the goodness right now. Yeah. I love it.

Tina Gosney 

If people want to get a hold of you, how can they find you?

Stephanie Pickle

They can find me at Stephanie pickle coaching.com. That’s my website or Stephanie pickle coaching on Instagram.

Tina Gosney 

Okay. Thank you so much for this discussion.

Stephanie Pickle

It was so good. I want to talk to you every week now.

Tina Gosney 

Well, we can arrange that. Okay.

Stephanie Pickle

Have you come back? I would love it. Thank you. Thanks. So,

Tina Gosney 

Now that you’ve listened to this discussion with Stephanie, what would you answer to that question that you wrote down at the beginning? How is grief showing up in your life? What did you hear that sounded familiar to your experience? And now that you’ve listened, I want you to ask yourself, How can I allow my grief to be okay? What can I do now to allow myself to grieve what I’ve lost? Ask yourself that, and then write down what comes to your mind. Whatever it is, and just feel that emotion that wants to be there. You won’t get swallowed up in it. You will let it have a voice. And that’s what it wants is a voice.

And then I want you to go get registered for my free masterclass. Come to this class to start healing. I’m going to show you some ways that you can start to feel better.

And remember, your detours and disappointments don’t define you and they don’t define your family.

Have a great day and I’ll see you in the master class on May 26.